Advanced Scamming

Back in 2009 we had some plumbing trouble.  It was a nightmare.  I was so angry at the time that I couldn't write about it.  (I don't like writing about things when I'm really mad in case I later regret what I've written.)  By the time I wasn't furious anymore it had been months and I never really got around to writing it down.  But I still have the paperwork and the details, so I will share them here in case they help someone in the future.

It was October 2009.  On a Wednesday we noticed that when we ran the washing machine, water would bubble up into the basement bathtub, the lowest point in the house. I groaned, knowing that this would be expensive, but that putting it off would only make things worse. I wondered which plumber to call, not having ever needed a plumber before. Of all the plumbers in the phone book, Advanced Plumbing stood out with their big ad. Their radio commercials are hilarious, all about a pushy lady and her grown son who is a plumber at "another company", much to his mother's dismay. Her fondest dream is for her son to work for the plumbing company, Advanced Plumbing. Having earned my Bachelor's in Business Marketing, I admired the cleverness of this commercial and decided to give Advanced Plumbing a call.

I mentioned the $99 sewer line clean-out special they were running. I was pleased that they were so friendly on the phone and could send someone out right away. John showed up, and suddenly the good feelings ended. We couldn't find the clean out, the point from which John would get into our sewer line to see what was wrong. If there ever was one outside, it was buried. And the one inside had been walled over when the basement was finished. Oh, and the only drain in the basement floor was under the bathroom tile. So John said he would have to remove the basement toilet, and I'd better go get some towels. Seriously? Didn't they have yucky towels for stuff like that? But I had never had a plumber before, so I didn't know. I supplied him with my nice bath towels to clean up the stuff that spilled out. You can tell from Annalee's age in the picture how long ago this was!

He sent his little clean-out thing down the line, then went down with his camera. Bad news. "You have a 25' belly in your line. It's all under water. You'll need to dig up the line and replace it." I stared at him in disbelief. I didn't know how much money it was going to be, but I could guess it was more than we had. We went upstairs to talk about $$ and he asked me when my husband was going to be home. I didn't really want to tell him, because at the time Nathan was going to school all day and then going to work for a few hours, and he didn't come home until late. I didn't like admitting how long I was alone all day. But I told John my husband worked late, but that was fine, we could talk about the money part now. John hemmed and hawed a little, then said that he'd rather come back when my husband was home to talk to both of us. Starting to get annoyed, I told him that my husband didn't make decisions about the house, didn't WANT to make decisions about the house, because he was going to school and working full time. Even if Nathan had been there right then, he would have turned to me and said, "Whatever you think we should do" because he didn't have enough energy to deal with things like that and he trusted my judgement.

Reluctantly, John pulled out his folder and went over the costs. If the belly was fully contained in our yard, it would cost $4500 to dig up and repair. If it extended into the street at all, it would cost $14,000 to repair, because of "closing the street and getting city permits and stuff like that." I was floored. He went over their credit and payment plans. I asked him to excuse me for a minute so I could make a phone call. "Yeah, call your husband!" he called after me as I left the room. Now I was mad. I DID NOT NEED TO TALK TO MY HUSBAND! I was perfectly able to decide things for myself, and my husband would back me up. I was calling one of his competitor's to get another quote! Except, his comment made me so angry that I started to cry, which is what happens when I get really mad and can't beat someone up or shout profanities at them. So I called my mom instead. She advised me to calm down, leave the sewer line alone for now, and get some other estimates. 

I returned to the living room and told John that I wasn't prepared to do anything at the moment, that I would like to get some estimates. He began what sounded like a very canned speech about how other plumbers would undoubtably be able to do it for less, but that Advanced Plumbing guaranteed their work for life.  Fine.  Good-bye!  I thought.  I paid the advertised $99 price plus the unadvertised $149 camera fee for a total of $248.  As he left, he told me that their work came with a guarantee, that I could have them come back for one free clean-out within the next year if the problem persisted.  This left me with the impression that he had at least fixed the problem temporarily.  I went on Craigslist and solicited quotes in the Jobs section.  I wrote, "My plumber just told me that I need to dig up my sewer line and have it replaced.  Looking for quotes to get this done."  I didn't name the company.

That night, I tried to drain the washer.  The water backed up into the tub again!  He hadn't fixed anything at all!!!  I called Advanced Plumbing the next morning.  The very nice lady said that she could send John out right away.  "I'd like another guy, please," I said.  No one else would be available until later in the day, but it would be worth it to deal with someone else.  Things got progressively worse as the day wore on and I realized that I couldn't let ANY water go down our drain.  We couldn't flush our toilets.  I had to throw my dishwater in the back yard.  I couldn't wait for the guy to get here.

That afternoon the new guy showed up.  I can't remember his name, I think it was Joel.  He was much nicer.  He came in and asked me what was going on and I explained the situation.  He asked if I would excuse him for a moment and then he went outside to his truck and got on his cell phone where I couldn't hear him.  Then he came back in and said, "Now don't get mad--"

Okay, now I was mad.  I had been perfectly nice and friendly to him, and the only reason he would think I would get mad is if he had called John, which is just what he had done.  So John, the King of Sexism, had filled him in on what a raunchy, irrational witch I supposedly was.  "Now don't get mad," he said, "I can run the line again, but I don't think it will do any good.  You need to have the line replaced."  "Well," I said, calmly and politely, "I don't have the money to dig up the yard right now, so let's try the line one more time." 

Joel attempted to find the clean out in our front yard by digging a bunch of holes with a shovel.  (I gave permission.)  No luck.  So he took off the toilet again (using his own towels) and augered the line.  When he was done, he said, "Do you want me to put the toilet back on?  Someone's just going to have to come out here again--we could save a wax ring."  I was confused.  I felt like I would really like the toilet put back on, especially since I had a toddler running around the house, but he was pressuring me not to do it.  "I think I'd like it back on," I said.  "But it's just going to come off again, we could save someone the trouble," he pressed.  He did not want to put it back.  Not really knowing why, but knowing it was what I wanted, I said, "Please put it back together." 

After he left I found out that wax rings cost $3.  And I also realized WHY it was a good thing to put the toilet back on.  Up to that point, all the water had been backing up into our tub, the lowest drain in the house.  But if he had left the toilet off, THAT would have been the lowest opening and I would have had sewage running all over the floor of my bathroom, soaking into the walls and flooding the hall carpet a few feet away.  Then I REALLY would have had an emergency.  How could he not know that?  Was he doing it on purpose, to make me desperate to have them fix it?  Or was he just incompetent?  I felt so overwhelmed.  It was October, the ground was about to freeze.  If we needed to dig we should do it soon.  I couldn't afford having them dig, though.  But I couldn't flush my toilet.  And guess what?  If I was a little more upsettable than normal it wasn't because I was having PMS--I was having a miscarriage during that whole horrible week!  My first miscarriage had occurred on a trip to Montana when there were NO restrooms available.  It was nearly unbearable to be having a miscarriage again and to have no bathrooms again when I was in my own home!

Friday was more of the same.  I had to wash my diapers at my visiting teacher's house.  Nothing could go down the drain.  I worried and anguished over the thousands of dollars we didn't have.  We avoid debt like the plague, but it felt like the plague had found us.  I didn't know what else to do.  But I thought that with this much money on the line it was worth paying for a second opinion.  I called AAA Sewer and spoke to the owner.  He said he could come out the next day. 

On Saturday he was late for his appointment, so I called him.  He was embarrassed to realize that he had scheduled an appointment on a Saturday without meaning to.  All of his guys were out hunting so he was the only one available but he honored our appointment without charging me extra for a weekend call.  When he arrived I explained the situation.  He started to look very uncomfortable.  "I don't like to speak ill of my competitors--" he began.  "Go ahead!" I said.  "I already think ill of them!"  Then he proceeded to tell me what all plumbers in the area know: Advanced Plumbing pulls this scam on people all the time.  They come out and tell you that you need your whole line replaced when you really don't.  Then, sometimes when they are in the middle of digging you up they find "it's worse than they thought" and they have you--you're helpless.  He said it's called "getting in the ground" because once they've dug up your yard and disconnected your sewer you would pay anything to get it fixed.  He said that all the plumbers know about this but they can't really say anything because it just comes off as them whining about the competition.  Then he told me that if my problem really was so bad that he had to dig up the line it would cost $1500 for in the yard and $4500 if it went into the street.  "What about closing the street and getting permits and stuff?" I asked.  He smiled at me sadly and said, "You don't have to close the street and the city doesn't charge you."  Wowzers.  I had come so close to being taken.

He then expressed optimism that things weren't that bad and that augering would probably fix it for a few years at least.  "But it didn't work before," I pointed out.  "How big was the blade they used?" he asked.  I showed him with my fingers, about an inch.  "Your line is three inches wide," he said.  "That's the size I'll use."  And he did.  When he heard I didn't have a clean-out available he called his son to bring a ladder and they climbed onto the roof and went in through the pipe up there.  No mess in my house.  I was so impressed!  Things drained immediately.  He ran the camera through and showed me that we did indeed have a belly, but it was only 10 feet long and would not be a problem as long as we cleaned it out every 3 years or so.  All of the houses around had been built with the same crummy material and they all had bellies, or roots growing into them.  He said eventually we might want to replace the line but there wasn't any rush.  I paid him $290 and blessed him forevermore.  He was so honest and good.  Wanna know what else he did?  We had a heating vent we thought might be blocked, so at my request he ran his camera into the duct to see if one of the louvers had been closed when the wall was finished around it.  (It wasn't--we just had low air flow.)  And he didn't charge us a thing!

That night I checked my email and had not one, but TWO emails from separate people in response to my Craigslist ad.  One said "Ha ha ha, sounds like Advanced Plumbing has been to your house.  They told us that too.  They are liars."  The other said, "If Advanced Plumbing told you that, run away and call someone else.  You probably don't need to replace your line."  Then I went online and found several reviews of Advanced Plumbing, detailing how they had scammed other people, even charging one elderly woman $800 to replace her kitchen faucet.  Her son was still trying to get the money back.  The BBB had given them excellent ratings, despite their many, many customer complaints.  Why?  Because price is not something the BBB rates on.  If a business quotes you a price and you agree to pay it, you have no argument.  Never mind that the price is a thousand times more than what anyone else would charge you!  That is how they afford all their advertising!

On Monday I called the very nice lady, Stefanie, and told her I would like my money back.  She said the owner, Kip, was not in and that she would call me back later that day.  She called me back that afternoon to tell me that the technician had not yet turned in the invoice and that she would need to look at his notes before she could proceed, so I might not hear back from her until tomorrow morning.  She was very nice and polite and so was I.  The next day she called me back and said that they had tried to clean out the line twice and it hadn't worked, so it was not their fault.  Feeling a little less polite, I pointed out that someone else had cleaned out the line just fine the next day when they used the proper sized auger.  "Oh," she said, "but you requested the $99 special, and that's just for the 1 inch blade."

(Excuse me while I step away from the computer for a moment.  Turns out, even after three years I am still angry about this!)

A lot less politely, but still not shouting, I said that they were the technicians, and they should have known that the problem was the 1 inch blade and they should have given me a choice, like, "Your line is going to need a 3 inch blade but that's not part of our special so it will be an extra $50."  They should have KNOWN that and told me, and since they didn't I can only assume THEY WERE EITHER INCOMPETENT OR THEY WERE TRYING TO SCAM ME!!!"

"Since you weren't satisfied with our service, we will give you a refund," she said.  That really annoyed me.  They didn't admit any fault, just said that I wasn't satisfied.  But at least they were giving me my money.  My next step would have been running to the local tv station!  "I'll come right over to pick it up," I said.  "Oh no," she protested.  "Our policy requires that we mail you some forms to sign and after you send them back to us we'll mail you your refund."  "Can't I just come in and sign the forms and get my money?"  No.  Of course not.  That would be too easy.  So by the time I finally got my money back it was two weeks later.  They sent me this letter:

"Dear Sandra,
"Thank you for calling Advanced Plumbing & Rooter to help you with your plumbing needs.  I thank you for your feedback & hope that you will think of us in the future when you are in need of plumbing help again."  [Believe me--I think of them EVERY TIME I need plumbing work done.]
"Enclosed is a form regarding the refund you spoke to me about.  Please sign the enclosed form, return it, and we will mail you a refund check.  Call me if you have any more questions or if there is anything else I can do for you.
"Sincerely, Stefanie Taylor"

This is what the form said:
 "All disputes, complaints and claims concerning the foregoing contract are hereby satisfied, settled and resolved in all respects by the client identified above and Advanced Plumbing & Rooter, Inc. based on a courtesy settlement of $00.00, a $248.00 reduction from the original contract price.  Advanced Plumbing & Rooter, Inc. will send a $248.00 refund check upon receipt of this letter signed.

1. Please carefully read the agreement before signing it.
2. Customer's signature below will fully and finally satisfy, settle, resolve and release all disputes, complaints and claims you may have against Advanced Plumbing & Rooter, Inc..
3. A copy of this letter may be sent to the Better Business Bureau, and/or other interested parties informing them that all disputes, complaints and claims have been settled and released.

"By the signature below, I/we understand the terms and condition(s) of this agreement and I/we acknowledge receipt of a completely filled in copy of this agreement this 3rd day of November, 2009."

And THAT is how they keep up their rating with the BBB.  They make you sign this form saying the complaint was resolved, so the BBB shows that they are great.  Except they are not great!  But there was no other way to get my money back, so I signed it.

Since that day, I noticed their trucks around my neighborhood a lot, and I saw them dig up a lot of yards.  It was so sad.  Whenever I saw their truck parked somewhere I would do a reverse-number look-up on the address and tell the people to get a second opinion.  But sometimes I was too late and they had already started digging, in which case I said nothing.  I would not want to be told after I signed a contract and had my yard dug up that I was paying for something I didn't need!

It's crazy.  Their advertising is so good.  Their receptionist's customer service is excellent.  And yet, they are the most dishonest, greedy, evil company I have ever dealt with.  Maybe not all their guys are purposely swindling people.  I can see some young pups going through the training and becoming convinced that all the lines in the city are made of crappy stuff (which they are) and that they need to be replaced (which they don't).  Many companies charge more than their competitors by offering an unmatched guarantee or other stand-apart service.  But overall, I think this company is just out to take everyone for a ride.  Please beware.  Read online reviews before you call anyone.  And whenever you are quoted something really big and crazy, don't be afraid to get another quote, even if it seems like you are paying for it twice.

If you live in Southeast Idaho, call AAA Sewer for any sewer problems--he is amazing!  Idaho Falls 522-6557  Rexburg 356-0330

We sold our house in February 2012 and the sewer line was still draining great.

I still get robo-calls from Advanced Plumbing for Christmas, Fourth of July, etc, because we have the same cell phone.  Wishing me a great holiday from my friends at Advanced Plumbing.  Whenever I hear their recording come on the line, using up my minutes, I boil over!  I have called them several times and told them I want to be taken off their phone list, but they don't do it!  It's like they're haunting me.  Well, I hope this review haunts them!